Comments on: How Javascript Came To Be http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/ 198.211.113.164 // 6326 273B 61A7 00AF 4CD9 5A7B 8C6C AB19 24A6 4DEC Tue, 28 Apr 2026 07:56:58 +0000 http://polimedia.us hourly 1 By: Jacob Welsh http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/#comment-5661 Jacob Welsh Thu, 23 Feb 2023 21:30:57 +0000 http://ztkfg.com/?p=508#comment-5661 If I might add a bit more nuance to the matter: Back in the 2000s there was a substantial scene (at least to my eyes at the time) of casual browser-based games, implemented mainly in Java and Flash. From a technical perspective it sucked but it was the right choice for the time. There were also the idiots who made you load a .swf just for their basic site navigation buttons to work, because duuude those animations are totally awesome. When JS started getting increasingly capable, to the point of being competitive with the plugin-based shit, I had this brief spell of optimism that people would use it to build cool stuff, which would be usefully integrated with the browser's interface and capabilities and would even work in the free software world. What looks to have happened instead is that the casual games moved instead to the newly miniaturized consoles (now for some reason called "devices"), PC gaming retreated to the niche of high-end graphics, and the annoying teenagers with the animated buttons grew up, multiplied and got organized into a standing army that's been busily trampling everything that was nice about the idea of the web. So I guess as usual it's not the tech that's the problem but the people, with the tech serving mostly as a group signal much like a bandana worn just-so. If I might add a bit more nuance to the matter:

Back in the 2000s there was a substantial scene (at least to my eyes at the time) of casual browser-based games, implemented mainly in Java and Flash. From a technical perspective it sucked but it was the right choice for the time.

There were also the idiots who made you load a .swf just for their basic site navigation buttons to work, because duuude those animations are totally awesome.

When JS started getting increasingly capable, to the point of being competitive with the plugin-based shit, I had this brief spell of optimism that people would use it to build cool stuff, which would be usefully integrated with the browser's interface and capabilities and would even work in the free software world.

What looks to have happened instead is that the casual games moved instead to the newly miniaturized consoles (now for some reason called "devices"), PC gaming retreated to the niche of high-end graphics, and the annoying teenagers with the animated buttons grew up, multiplied and got organized into a standing army that's been busily trampling everything that was nice about the idea of the web.

So I guess as usual it's not the tech that's the problem but the people, with the tech serving mostly as a group signal much like a bandana worn just-so.

]]> By: whaack http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/#comment-5656 whaack Sun, 19 Feb 2023 16:21:10 +0000 http://ztkfg.com/?p=508#comment-5656 @jfw I guess including/excluding javascript is the line between offering information and advertising on a website. @jfw

I guess including/excluding javascript is the line between offering information and advertising on a website.

]]> By: Jacob Welsh http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/#comment-5655 Jacob Welsh Fri, 17 Feb 2023 16:24:59 +0000 http://ztkfg.com/?p=508#comment-5655 To my eye, closer to the core of the matter is that the kind of "developers" or "bosses" who think JS is cool are contributing not to some vibrant competitive marketplace but to a mining cartel, that pushes out all manner of random changes for no particular reason besides fashion signaling, and is run not in the interests of its users but of advertisers because guess who's writing the checks. Otherwise, you'd seem to be missing the part about... how JS came to be :P To my eye, closer to the core of the matter is that the kind of "developers" or "bosses" who think JS is cool are contributing not to some vibrant competitive marketplace but to a mining cartel, that pushes out all manner of random changes for no particular reason besides fashion signaling, and is run not in the interests of its users but of advertisers because guess who's writing the checks.

Otherwise, you'd seem to be missing the part about... how JS came to be :P

]]> By: whaack http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/#comment-5654 whaack Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:39:14 +0000 http://ztkfg.com/?p=508#comment-5654 Such progress! Such progress!

]]> By: Robinson Dorion http://ztkfg.com/2023/02/how-javascript-came-to-be/#comment-5653 Robinson Dorion Thu, 16 Feb 2023 19:22:28 +0000 http://ztkfg.com/?p=508#comment-5653 <blockquote> Naturally, the situation became a race to the bottom, each browser loosening its js compiler rules until we reached the situation we are in today. </blockquote> Which tends to be that if you don't have the latest <strike>"vaccine" booster</strike> <a href="http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Feb-2023/#5855" rel="nofollow">updates of brokenness</a>, you're not allowed to read directly. Maybe through archive.is or something, which can be okay for reading, but impossible for other functions. Therefore, you, who tried to maintain stability, have to underwrite their bugs.. or leave.

Naturally, the situation became a race to the bottom, each browser loosening its js compiler rules until we reached the situation we are in today.

Which tends to be that if you don't have the latest "vaccine" booster updates of brokenness, you're not allowed to read directly. Maybe through archive.is or something, which can be okay for reading, but impossible for other functions. Therefore, you, who tried to maintain stability, have to underwrite their bugs.. or leave.

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